Rumiko Takahashi X Satoru Noda

Translated by: Sakaki for Shonen Sunday Talkback

Part 1

Commemoration for MAO's first volume: A special project!!!
Satoru Noda x Rumiko Takahashi
The two artists who draw the "Meiji" and "Taisho" in the Reiwa era- Special Conversation!!

Ms. Takahashi, you're probably familiar with Golden Kamuy which is beloved by it's fanbase, but what was your first opportunity to read the series?

Takahashi: My editor really likes the series so they brought me volume one and asked me to read it. ^[1] I read it and it was great so I immediately went out and bought the rest of them!

Noda: Thank you so much!

Takahashi: When I first read it I thought "This is too scary! It's super realistic!" (laughs) After getting over how scary it was, I thought that the inclusion and research of the Ainu culture was fascinating and carefully implemented. Did you do a fair amount of information gathering yourself?

Noda: It felt like I had to go around all of Hokkaido at least once. Even then it wasn't enough so I find myself making time during the serialization to gather more info. It was during that time too that I wanted more information on horses, so I went looking for that too. The Dosanko are horses native to Hokkaido, but western horses are smaller and wider like in this photo...

Takahashi: Ahh yes, it's like... they're taller but a bit smaller too. Is it so that one can put a saddle on them and go for a ride?

Noda: That's right. However the Dosanko are different than the western horse in that when they walk the front legs move simultaneously with the back, and there is little fluctuation in their movements.

Takahashi: Oh? So that's how the Dosanko moves, but the western horse isn't like that?

Noda: One can ride the western horse too, but because they're so tall they move a lot when they run and it can be scary.

Takahashi: So then you'd probably go with the local flavor, right?

Noda: I'm not quite sure. Since all Hokkaido has are the Dosanko, their distinct way of walking is all I know. So I went to Hokkaido to do research so that I don't carelessly draw a horse and readers can tell I'm drawing a western horse.

What were your thoughts when you first started drawing Golden Kamuy Mr. Noda?

Noda: To put it simply my grandfather went to 203 Hill, and I wanted to draw that. My editor went and got a novel about hunting and I thought it was really interesting, so I combined that with the story I wanted to draw. Furthermore the Ainu culture was still very prevalent during the Meiji era- in short a story that isn't modernistic.

Takahashi: However the Ainu culture has a certain relevance to it too. It's the kind of world that you have to depict properly without fail. I think it's amazing you tackled such a subject forthright, and furthermore kept it interesting.

Noda: The editorial department also put their resolve on the line. There were a few folks who spoke up and said it'd be fine if it were a fantasy work, though. In the end we said that fantasy Ainu isn't the same as real Ainu and stuck to our guns.

Takahashi: Sounds like everyone had plenty of resolve. So then was the first thing you gathered research materials on the Ainu culture?

Noda: I inquired with the Hokkaido Ainu association, and it was there that I was introduced to and linked with a very dependable person. Though from the very start I was simply told to draw what I wanted to, and since then no one has interfered. Not a single time was I told to draw this way or that way. "Whether it be good or bad, let Satoru draw whatever he wants without fear," is what they said. So since I was given so much freedom, I was somewhat nervous to ask about doing research. Though when I had a few drinks in me I was a bit more frank.

Takahashi: It's thanks to that we're able to read Golden Kamuy, right?

So then, how were you able to create the protagonist Sugimoto and the others?

Noda: I just thought that a guy returning from a war had an appeal to him. Beyond that I thought about what kind of feelings my grandfather felt after the Russo-Japanese War, and that ended up being Sugimoto. After creating him I wondered if I needed a character that acts as his guide to the Ainu culture, but then after some discussion we thought a manga filled with just old guys wouldn't be very popular (laughs). So I came up with a girl (Asirpa). Although she's a young girl, she's still a hunter and very well versed in the Ainu culture.

Takahashi: Huh? Really?

Noda: For the Ainu, the duties men and women had were completely different. However even knowing this for the sake of entertainment I thought it was okay to have a little lie. Of course there were objections to this at the beginning of the serial. It was only after some time in the distant future that we knew of stories where girls were hunters.

Takahashi: That's true.

Noda: It might seem surprisingly bold, but stories like that are real and amazing.

Now then. Ms. Takahashi what was your reason for choosing the Taisho era as the stage for MAO?

Takahashi: The origin of the setting came from the head editor of Sunday being a big fan of the Taisho era and implying to me "how about this" for my next story. I thought to myself that he really does like the Taisho a lot doesn't he? (laughs). I said I'd think about it. From the current time that's about 100 years ago. Since the sticking point was the Taisho, I started thinking to myself that this would be my first opportunity to draw it.

Noda: Is that so! Do you have reference books on the subject?

Takahashi: I've read all kinds of books on the Taisho era, but I forgot most of them. In any case I figured since I had forgotten them that I'd just draw all kinds of things like the books I had and proceeded that way. By the way, Mr. Noda, I recall your previous work about ice hockey Supinamarada (スピナマラダ!). ^[2] It must have been a lot of hard work for you, but it was a lot of fun. On that note it feels like from when Supervisor Nihei appeared the standard of overwhelming characters rose and the series suddenly became more light hearted.

Noda: Thank you. Even though chapter one is precious to me it was also the most painful. Well, I'd say really the first three were painful, but chapter one especially. I'd love to go back and correct my mistakes. Well, no not only that, but the character designs and stuff too. Everyone was wearing helmets, so the shape of their hair and their silhouettes are important. Being able to see into the crevices of the helmet means getting a peek at the angle of their eyebrows, the width and size of their eyes... unless you were a person who really liked them it'd be hard to tell them apart.

Takahashi: Is that how Golden Kamuy stayed alive?

Noda: I had decided from before the serial's start that this time relative ease would be the most important thing.

Takahashi: Through that the character's individual quirks stand out quite easily and it makes them interesting.

Noda: It really pleases me to hear that.

On that note, Ms. Takahashi have you ever used celebrities as models?

Takahashi: I haven't used celebrities as models, no. Surprisingly enough they're all in my head. Because my art is manga art. For me molding characters is first and foremost having them stand out, and beyond that causing reactions. "How will folks react to this character" is how I decide on when I'm creating them.

Noda: Reactions?

Takahashi: People are surprisingly akin to the way they look. Like upon seeing someone one immediately thinks "Oh they must be this way" and such. That's why one does the character design before the storyboard to keep from over designing a character. A storyboard can get pretty messy when one is adding this, that and other various things.

Noda: It's at that time that you come up with the finer points of the character design?

Takahashi: Well, it's one of the points you do hammer out as the story progresses. For the most part one just wants to get their quirks and such solidified. A long time ago when drawing manga they'd tell you to create a character that's easily identifiable by their silhouette, but that seems unnecessary nowadays.

Noda: That's true. That kind of character doesn't really show up in seinen manga.

Ms. Takahashi, you've drawn a myriad of characters with different personalities. Have you ever up until now used a person you've met as a reference for a character?

Takahashi: I haven't. Honestly speaking I have a tough time remembering people's faces, and since names and faces are usually linked together well, (laughs). Though if I dare to say it myself, the characters that I admire in the manga I've read up until now have deep down had some similarities to me.

Then what did you have trouble with in conceptualizing the characters in MAO?

Takahashi: From the very beginning I haven't been able to get a handle on what kind of heroine Nanoka is, or what kind of person she'll be... though when I was redrawing the storyboard for chapter one for the umpteenth time...

Noda: Whoa. You have to redraw storyboards over and over again?

Takahashi: Yep (laughs). It was around the fourth time when I was drawing the scene where she drank the vegetable drink that her reaction came to mind and I realized "this is what kind of person she is." Maybe we had finally got to know each other after being so stiff around each other at first. It really did feel like I didn't know anything about the world at that point.

Noda: I see.

Takahashi: That's why after doing the character design doing the storyboard became surprisingly easy. Other than the three leads no one else really appeared so I didn't have any more difficulty after that.

Noda: On that note, you have many series that are 30 volumes and 50 volumes long. Do you decide from the start that they'll be that length?

Takahashi: Ah no, that's just how things end up in the end. My previous series Kyokai no RINNE was more of a comedy manga so I thought to myself "it's probably better if this one doesn't go on too long" and ultimately decided on 40 volumes.

Noda: It's incredible that you're able to continue all of your works and allot a proper ending.

Takahashi: No, no, I'd say that Golden Kamuy is pretty incredible too. Everyone has a unique personality and I think that's great. I love both Sugimoto and Asirpa, but lately Koito has been really entertaining too.

Noda: Koito! I knew it! I thought you'd like him most as well.

Takahashi: Oh? Why's that?

Noda: Because in Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2 you had characters like him- young lords who are mischievous swordsmen appear. Mendo, and Kuno and such. They were the most foolish characters, I think! So I figured you must like those characters the most.

Takahashi: (Laughs) It's not just that. During the circus troupe arc he got so caught up in being entertaining that he forgot the reason he was there. Watching him negotiate with Sugimoto was really funny.

Noda: Thank you so much! Though while thinking that I brought the signed present for Sunday readers- an illustration of Koito. I'm glad I was right on the money!

Takahashi: Amazing! May I have a copy?

(The continuation of the interview will be in Weekly Young Jump issue #42 out September 19th).

Part 2

Satoru Noda x Rumiko Takahashi
The two artists who draw the "Meiji" and "Taisho" in the Reiwa era- Special Conversation!!

Mr. Noda, Ms. Takahashi, thanks so much for continuing this conversation. Ms. Takahashi what would you say is the charm of Golden Kamuy?

Takahashi: Hm, I guess I'd say how the realism is at a scary level. I think that's good, but perhaps the sudden appearance of the men getting into the sauna. It's like "where did the tension go?" Though that too has it's charm, since people would probably wonder "how did they possibly get in there?"

Noda: It's just a bad habit of mine to fool around...

Takahashi: But that's still really interesting.

Noda: Conversely I get too embarrassed to draw naked girls acting all cute. Though with guys I have no problem.

Takahashi: Several pages before they were at each other's throats trying to kill one another, but then they're able to have a good enough affinity to mix together. It's kind of amazing, really.

Noda: I thought it was important to give them openings. It seems only Hijikata is tough as nails.

Takahashi: I understand. Deciding on who will be the tough one can be difficult, huh... Rarely do things go exactly as I plan them. I find it's often best to think of things as vaguely as possible as through doing that more interesting ideas that you weren't expecting can happen. Up until now I can say it's the things I wasn't planning for that ended up being the most fun to draw.

Noda: So you've never experienced writer's block?

Takahashi: Writer's block... of course I have? Though I don't acknowledge it. So let's just go with saying I've never experienced it.

Noda: I suppose for a weekly serialization one really doesn't have time to worry about writer's block. Though what would you say your reason is to keep drawing interesting manga in a weekly magazine?

Takahashi: It's embarrassing for me to say this, but I'd say it mostly has to do with me not wanting to back down from a challenge. If I find myself drawing a manuscript that's boring, then I'd rather stop than allow the quality to drop. It's because I keep this in mind that I can keep doing my best to draw an interesting manuscript. Even if you do have a high level manuscript ready, if you're able to think of something more fun in the meantime you should change it. In the end reviewing your work and reading it over is invaluable. If you're drawing something that you never want to see again then drawing manga is pretty difficult, no?

Noda: It is. That's why when I'm preparing for the collected volumes I make a lot of changes. Even when I get a week off from the magazine I'm basically using that to work.

Takahashi: Do you have any interesting anecdotes about that?

Noda: Well, it's kind of hard to talk about, but stuff like having enough pages and finding an easy means of tying events together, changing some of the lines, it's kind of like going back in time which I find somewhat fun. I even go back and fix Tanigaki's chest hairs.

Takahashi: Even Tanigaki's chest hairs, huh...(laughs).

Takahashi: Having enough pages to maintain momentum is quite important, probably just as much as Tanigaki's chest hairs.

Noda: When looking at the artwork it's easy to get overwhelmed by feelings isn't it? Especially when drawing something really difficult– you end up not realizing things until it's too late.

Takahashi: I get that. When there are gaps you end up feeling like an idiot... My debut work was a comedy, and when you saw it at a glance that's what it appeared to be. However when then drawing serious manga instead it gets to be a real trial to not have things looking foolish...

Noda: Is MAO any different?

Takahashi: MAO is quite restrained. Though I haven't thought of anything too silly for it either (laughs). However there are times where there isn't a joke or straight man that are supposed to be funny. Without them saying so, where should one laugh? There are moments like these. Do you know Ranma 1/2?

Noda: Of course.

Takahashi: There were times where to me I'd have intended to draw a really sad scene, but when the editor read it they'd burst out laughing. Like for example when the guys who became a duck and pig went out on a journey...

Noda: Ryoga and Mousse, right?

Takahashi: Ah yes. So a lot had happened to them and they weren't able to return to themselves. So for that scene I had thought I'd drawn a really sad scene.

Noda: You had worked so hard on it but in the end it was taken instead as a hilarious scene, despite the characters being dead serious about it. In Golden Kamuy there's a guy, Anehata, who makes the utmost effort to stalk and have sex with animals. It's pretty deplorable, but because he's so serious about it, it almost feels like you should forgive him and cheer him on. Of course I can't go drawing that as is.

Takahashi: It was a somewhat moving scene (laughs). I really like the story about the old guy and the princess. I laughed a lot at it- their pure love was really something else, wasn't it?

Noda: For that scene I asked my assistant to draw the clouds as a heart, and they were like "huh"? ... (Thinking of really charismatic characters...)

Noda: Do you think of the themes of the series from the first chapter?

Takahashi: For this series (MAO) I had had decided on just the major themes, but I hadn't quite figured out how I'd go about executing them. So each time I'd reach a highlight with the mindset "Okay this is how this should be." So the highlights themselves were roughly decided on.

Noda: For me I'd have my editors asking me often "what's the theme for this week's chapter supposed to be?" It seems like they had totally forgotten...

Takahashi: I understand what it is to forget. It's not quite the same as when I have meetings with the editor, I'd remember the really interesting parts of the chapter, the storyboard and Otoya- stuff like that.

Noda: I understand, but sometimes things go differently than my expectations, for example the character known as Henmi wasn't one I had developed very much and the editor even said that it'd be okay to kill him off... but I thought I should work on him some more and forcefully gave him some character development. After that I thought the manga needed something new, I decided why not make it a dog manga? Which meant bringing back Ryuu who had been popular before, so I strategically introduced him at a certain point. Ryuu allowed the story to expand even more so he's quite the convenient character.

Takahashi: Oh? Are there any others?

Noda: Kirawus and Kadokura are two characters I personally like a lot. They're quite a reliable duo. Oh and so I don't forget there was one charismatic evening where I was eating with my editors and they said, "you should think of some incredible characters right now." So I revealed to them "I'm thinking of a character who has sex with animals. What do you think?" The answer was "Ah... is that right?" And it was through that conversation that a character who probably shouldn't have been created was born. "He's a powerful medicine for the series, but where would you be able to introduce him naturally without it being forced within the nature of the Ainu?" was the question, but "because he's defiling animals I think that the Ainu have no choice but to get involved," was my response. That's how that charismatic night went.

Takahashi: (Laughs) On the subject of powerful medicines, let's take the creation of the Edogai family. Of course Edogai is interesting but it's through how creepy he is.

Noda: Thank you. I found the idea of counterfeits to be extremely compelling. For that I even went to a taxidermist place for information and I got all kinds of information to keep things realistic from the workers there.

Takahashi: I see. On that note, what manga influenced you?

Noda: I'm a Jump reader. Of course things like Kinnikuman (キン肉マン) and Hana no Keiji (花の慶次) I picked up the beefy men chilling in a hot-spring scene from the reader's perspective from Hana no Keiji in particular, but it was meant to tie in with the previous scene. ^[3] It's probably where I grew my sense of machismo. When I was a kid, I had the naked poster of Rambo III hanging over my bed. I was really a troublesome elementary school student. Ms. Takahashi, what's your ideal badass guy like?

Takahashi: Fundamentally I love the movie Drunken Master with Jackie Chan.

Noda: Jackie Chan is really cool, isn't he? I personally love Drunken Master too.

Takahashi: Other than that I read Ashita no Joe and Dororo when I was a child. ^[4] It seems my type is mostly made up of cool guys seen in shonen manga. However, since my debut was a comedy manga, I didn't really get to draw that type of character.

Noda: But Ranma is pretty cool, isn't he? ^[5]

Takahashi: He is, but then there's "Ranma" within him. I wonder if drawing a guy like him was a good idea or not? (laughs)

(A proper discussion of parents and results.)

Takahashi: Mr. Noda, when did you decide that you'd become a manga artist?

Noda: I'd say around the time of my high school graduation. Up until then I had only been reading (Shonen) Jump, and everyone in the magazine was amazing like faraway existences. I hadn't even drawn that much at the time either. Around that time I started reading Young Jump... I'm not sure how to put this but I saw that even though the newbies weren't the best they still did their best and that encouraged me. Certain manga there had a lot of zeal in them, but those are the kind of manga I love.

Takahashi: I get it, I do.

Noda: So I got to thinking that I'd try drawing something too. It's because this magazine in particular gave me so much courage. Of course the art quality in Young Jump is very high and you have to put your all into your work.

Takahashi: So what was your first work? Where did you submit it?

Noda: I won a prize at that magazine. I never said to my parents "I want to be a manga artist." Though since I had results- a prize even, I thought that I should inform them regarding what I wanted. I said that I "wanted to go to Tokyo."

Takahashi: You got a prize for the very first manga you drew? That's amazing.

Noda: It was really crappy in all honesty. I didn't even use a G pen. Though before I knew it I was in Tokyo as Mitsurou Kubo's assistant. Kubo had also come from her hometown as a youngster full of dreams to pursue being a manga artist. If it weren't for that I wouldn't be in Tokyo so I took Kubo's invitation.

Takahashi: How old were you at that time?

Noda: I was over twenty. I got my start kind of late, but there had been some time that passed before I had really made my mind up to be a manga artist. While I was waiting for a serialization of my own I was still thinking about it, and from there I ended up at Yasuyuki Kunitomo's place as an assistant. Kunitomo had a great working schedule. I had three days to myself. It was afterwards that Kunimoto said to me "I'm glad that I gave you time to work on your own series." (I learned a lot from Kunitomo.)

Takahashi: Were you still using analog tools to draw while assisting Kunitomo?

Noda: Half of the time. Rather than say digital, we were using analog means to draw all kinds of scenery on the computer. Then we'd print out that data and attach it to the manuscript. So we'd draw backgrounds using analog, scan those to the computer to build up stock, and it was my job to cut these and attach the various settings to the manuscript.

Takahashi: I see.

Noda: After I left there, I thought to go all digital, and thought "I'll start things from this age!"

Takahashi: I have a friend who appreciates the arts, so I knew of Kunitomo through them, but I didn't know they're a person who was advancing things in their own way.

Noda: Kunitomo is a very reasonable person.

Takahashi: It's through this that I can see in the near future that the staff of a series work from their indiviual homes, and I think it's incredible that this new method exists.

Noda: Right? Kunitomo knew computers better than I did when I was their assistant. They even taught me how to divide storyboards.

Takahashi: How to divide storyboards?

Noda: He taught me that since a chapter is 18 pages, that developments and scenes should change every six pages. If you show the same scenery for more than six pages it'll get boring. I learned all kinds of things there.

Takahashi: I understand what Kunitomo means about six pages. I spend about three days on the storyboard, and I spend a surprising amount of time chopping scenes up. After I get through page six I ask myself if it's ready to show to the editor, if the point the story diverts should go here, if everything up until this point is okay, and so on. So I totally understand.

Noda: On that point, where do you get your ideas Ms. Takahashi? Movies? Books?

Takahashi: I wouldn't necessarily say I'm inspired by movies, but I do get a surprising amount of enjoyment from novels...

Noda: Why would you say that?

Takahashi: Obviously it's manga, if it's manga you can think of all kinds of foolish stuff and it's still fun (laughs).

Noda: That is really fun isn't it?

Do you have any routines you follow when drawing manga?

Takahashi: It acts as a magic charm for me but when I'm drawing the storyboards I eat fish. I pray that the taurine I'm ingesting helps my brain work better.

Noda: You've always been doing that?

Takahashi: That's right. I always do it, I always find a way to. Any fish will do.

Noda: For me I don't have anything at all. When I'm drawing I don't move or do anything at all other than focusing on my artwork. I've even started correcting how I set my teeth. If I leave it be I can have them perfectly aligned. Do you not watch TV or anything either?

Takahashi: Eh? Of course I do.

Noda: Is that so? I don't even listen to the radio.

Takahashi: I have the TV on. I need the sound... Even during my meetings with the editor I have the TV on and sometimes words that I find interesting come up on the news. "Oh, that's a good one, that word is interesting" I'll think. On that note, have you already got a final scene for Golden Kamuy in mind?

Noda: Yes I do. Really making sure that the story is consistent with the finale I have in mind is difficult. I'll do my best to make sure the wrap up to the story is prepared well.

Takahashi: Lately that man, Tsurumi, has been rather surprising. I hadn't noticed him.

Noda: That story has always been heating up. I'm glad that a certain scene that occurred in volume 18 happened. Typically I think of how a volume has ten chapters in it, but as that was the centerpiece of the volume, I made several adjustments.

Takahashi: Having that character on the cover, even changing the colors... you're quite considerate to keep folks from buying it by mistake (laughs).

Noda: There are times where you've made a mistake and bought something, huh.

Takahashi: I have three copies (laughs). Up until now I haven't really thought too hard about the volumes I have, but it seems I'll have to for now on. I really look forward to when new volumes of Golden Kamuy come out so I can't help myself.

Noda: Thank you so much. Please take this complimentary volume.

Takahashi: No no, I still rather enjoy going to the bookstore myself and buying manga. Thank you very much for today. I'm quite glad we were able to meet each other.

Noda: It was an honor for me as well. Thank you so much!

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Footnotes

• [1] Takahashi's editor at this point in time would have been Kento Moriwaki (森脇健人).
• [2] Supinamarada! (スピナマラダ!) was Noda's series that preceeded Golden Kamuy. It was not successful, but the subsequent success of Golden Kamuy revived interest in Supinamarada! resulting in Noda relaunching the series in 2023 after the conclusion of Golden Kamuy.
• [3] Kinnikuman (キン肉マン), known as M.U.S.C.L.E in the United States is a comedy wrestling series by Yudetamago. Hana no Keiji (花の慶次) is written by Keiichiro Ryu and illustrated by Tetsuo Hara of Fist of the North Star (北斗の拳) fame.
• [4] Ashita no Joe (あしたのジョー) is the legendary boxing manga by Tetsuya Chiba. Dororo (どろろ) is the famed manga by Osamu Tezuka.
• [5] Male Ranma is referred to using kanji, while female Ranma is written in hiragana. Noda uses the kanji here denoting male Ranma, while Takahashi uses the hiragana denoting female.

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